This is my personal view and comments on the issues and events that I feel a need to talk about or express my view. You don't have to agree, but lets carry on a adult, discussion and maybe you will see it the right way, mine. ;)
When you want to know, ask the guys really wearing it..
Published on January 8, 2006 By ShadowWar In War on Terror
OK now there is a question of how much body armour is and should be available to the troops.

Here is what the Washington Post had:
Body-Armor Gaps Are Shown to Endanger Troops
Pentagon Studies Call Deaths Preventable

They of coure accuse, accuse, accuse. Not once did they bother to ask the guys wearing the stuff what they thought. Then a few smart reporters went out and did just that, what a concept! Here is what they found:

Some U.S. troops reject more body armor
Chicago Sun Times Link

and: Associated Press
Update 6: U.S. Soldiers Question Use of More Armor Link

Any ground pounder (Infantry) solider will tell you that he wants to be fast, mobile and able to move quickly. While body armour is great and has saved many lives (one of my good friends included) it is very heavy, hot and restricts movement. MOST solider I have talked too, about 10, 8 of the 10 reject wearing more armour as it would be just too much. Its like trying to armour up a HMMwV. Something it was not designed for in the first place.

All the body Armour questions and accusations may be moot in a year or two anyway:

Army Scientists, Engineers develop Liquid Body Armor
April 21, 2004

ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, Md. -- Liquid armor for Kevlar vests is one of the newest technologies being developed at the U.S. Army Research Laboratory to save Soldiers' lives.

This type of body armor is light and flexible, which allows soldiers to be more mobile and won't hinder an individual from running or aiming his or her weapon.


The key component of liquid armor is a shear thickening fluid. STF is composed of hard particles suspended in a liquid. The liquid, polyethylene glycol, is non-toxic, and can withstand a wide range of temperatures. Hard, nano-particles of silica are the other components of STF. This combination of flowable and hard components results in a material with unusual properties.

"During normal handling, the STF is very deformable and flows like a liquid. However, once a bullet or frag hits the vest, it transitions to a rigid material, which prevents the projectile from penetrating the Soldier's body," said Dr. Eric Wetzel, a mechanical engineer from the Weapons and Materials Research Directorate who heads the project team.

To make liquid armor, STF is soaked into all layers of the Kevlar vest. The Kevlar fabric holds the STF in place, and also helps to stop the bullet. The saturated fabric can be soaked, draped, and sewn just like any other fabric.

Wetzel and his team have been working on this technology with Dr. Norman J. Wagner and his students from the University of Delaware for three years.

"The goal of the technology is to create a new material that is low cost and lightweight which offers equivalent or superior ballistic properties as compared to current Kevlar fabric, but has more flexibility and less thickness," said Wetzel. "This technology has a lot of potential."

Liquid armor is still undergoing laboratory tests, but Wetzel is enthusiastic about other applications that the technology might be applied to.

"The sky's the limit," said Wetzel. "We would first like to put this material in a soldier's sleeves and pants, areas that aren't protected by ballistic vests but need to remain flexible. We could also use this material for bomb blankets, to cover suspicious packages or unexploded ordnance. Liquid armor could even be applied to jump boots, so that they would stiffen during impact to support Soldiers' ankles."

In addition to saving Soldiers' lives, Wetzel said liquid armor in Kevlar vests could help those who work in law enforcement.

"Prison guards and police officers could also benefit from this technology," said Wetzel. "Liquid armor is much more stab resistant than conventional body armor. This capability is especially important for prison guards, who are most often attacked with handmade sharp weapons." I like this part!!

For their work on liquid armor, Wetzel and his team were awarded the 2002 Paul A. Siple Award, the Army's highest award for scientific achievement, at the Army Science Conference.

Very interesting stuff, I hope it is as good as they claim, it would really make movement easier for the solider. One of the biggest complaints I get from the guys I talk too is that the ceramic body armour is very heavy, hot and hard to move around in. I guess we can always add more armour so our guys can' t move at all. There comes a fine line between having enough body armour and too much that it hinders yours mission.


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Comments (Page 2)
4 Pages1 2 3 4 
on Jan 09, 2006
I tell it like it is. It is you and other JoeUsers that assign the term "Bush Bashing" to the facts I report.


You tell it like the NYT and moveon.org tells it to you. Your "facts" are constantly proven to be either false, or taken way out of context.
on Jan 09, 2006
drmiler

I tell it like it is. It is you and other JoeUsers that assign the term "Bush Bashing" to the facts I report.


Then I would suggest that you talk to "deference" who usually goes "against" Bush in general and who has said basically the same thing.

That is because Bush had to go to a war that DID NOT NEED to be fought!

I agree with that statement Col. Gene but I'll tell you - the thread Drmiler posted a scant fifteen days ago personally addressing you was luck. Pure luck. I had very much considered posting a thread addressing you at about the same time - it wouldn't have been nearly as mild as Drmiler's.

You need to change your approach. Learn to temper your rhetoric, even...

I and most of the other JU regulars (who continually go back and forth in our, um...rather spirited debates) have realized the need to treat each other as more then an anonymous poster designed to be ranted at for our convenience.

If you have a message, a mission, an agenda, kindly keep in mind that on the other end of the line exists another user; just as human and feverishly tapping away their important opinion. Sometimes you'll get a 'def. brn!' or a 'drmiler oneliner' or even the occasional 'Take the Baker-Shoot-Your-Point-All-To-Hell-Street' but remember that only temporary residence here at JU allows one to shoot one's mouth off regardless of fact and consideration for other bloggers. To stick around one must be a little more...substantive - humane, even.

You don't want that old 'send the Col Gene bot after him' moniker all your stay here do you?

Or will you pass from us soon?



Or stevendedalus


#16 by stevendedalus
Saturday, January 07, 2006





I'll guarantee that the col isn't poking fun. He was serious.


A given, he definitely needs to lighten up and get off the kick of Bush-bashing.


Get a clue will ya? If you can't afford one....I'll purchase one for you.
on Jan 09, 2006
Most of my facts come from U S Government agencies. I have also used articles from other publications as well. The data I use is correct but the Bushies call it Bush Bashing. A good example is what has happened to the Annual Deficit and the National debt since Jan 2001. 1000 of 1000 people would most likely say the past 5 years have been very bad for our future. That is an example of what JoeUsers would call Bush bashing. I guess that is how you must view the impact of the tax and spending policies we have been following! Reflecting that 3 million people illegally crossed our southern border would also be considered Bush bashing. The 1 million additional Americans that lost healthcare during the past 5 years would also be Bush bashing to JoeUsers. The slaughter in Iraq and the deaths since the last election is most definitely Bush Bashing. The fact we are more dependent of foreign oil today is absolutely Bush bashing.
on Jan 09, 2006
I think I count as one of the 1000, and I think I am better off over the last 5 years. I make more money, I feel the laws have improved for my protection (I live in Fla) and I feel better that our military is fighting the terrorist in Iraq and not the streets of New York. SO I guess your wrong on that count. Anyone else?

The southern border IS a problem and I agree with you on that. SO your point there? No one said we agree 100% with all of the Administrations policies or doings. You are the only one against ALL of them. Thats what makes the difference. ANd no offense, we are more dependent on foreign oil because some people in our government will not allow drilling in certain areas that should be opened up for oil drilling. ANWR, Florida Gulf and other areas.

Anything else? I pay less taxes, make more money and feel safer at home from the terrorist. How about anyone else of the 1000?? Want to chime in?
on Jan 09, 2006
Most of my facts come from U S Government agencies


No, most of your facts come from you ass.  As has been PROVED.  Doc Miler is trying to be nice.  I would suggest you listen to him for a change.  If that is even remotely possible any longer for your hate atrophied brain.
on Jan 10, 2006
Most of my facts come from U S Government agencies. I have also used articles from other publications as well. The data I use is correct but the Bushies call it Bush Bashing. A good example is what has happened to the Annual Deficit and the National debt since Jan 2001. 1000 of 1000 people would most likely say the past 5 years have been very bad for our future. That is an example of what JoeUsers would call Bush bashing. I guess that is how you must view the impact of the tax and spending policies we have been following! Reflecting that 3 million people illegally crossed our southern border would also be considered Bush bashing. The 1 million additional Americans that lost healthcare during the past 5 years would also be Bush bashing to JoeUsers. The slaughter in Iraq and the deaths since the last election is most definitely Bush Bashing. The fact we are more dependent of foreign oil today is absolutely Bush bashing.


We don't care "where" you get your facts from. It's "really" not important. The problem is that "you" find NOTHING good coming from GW. All we EVER hear from you is "Bush, baaaaaad"! Grow up!
Yes we would call this Bush bashing. And do you know why? As if you even care. We would call it bashing because there is NO proof, only opinion! Not even a poll was sited. That would be a first for you. Please grow a brain! You know something? I REALLY hated "dabe"! But you are faaaaaar worse than she ever was. At least her rhetoric had some thinking behind it. Yours on the other hand rarely does! As long as it's bad for Bush, you'll print it. Which is probably why your book didn't have a stellar performance!
on Jan 10, 2006
Once again Colon Gangrene takes an article that has nothing to do with Prs. Bush, and makes it a "Bush Bash".

The point, unless I missed it, was what troops in Iraq have to say about the body armor. Their opinion seems to matter to some of us, but apparently the opinions are as meaningless to the mighty Colon as the troops themselves.

I, for one, thank you ShadowWar, for bringing these quotes to our attention. I know it isn't the opinion of every troop in country, but it's nice to hear from them once in awhile.
on Jan 10, 2006
I feel better that our military is fighting the terrorist in Iraq and not the streets of New York.
Oh, PLEASE! Let's not get carried away.
on Jan 10, 2006
Oh, PLEASE! Let's not get carried away.


Yeah, becuase terrorists would never hit New York. :~D
on Jan 10, 2006


Reply By: stevendedalusPosted: Tuesday, January 10, 2006I feel better that our military is fighting the terrorist in Iraq and not the streets of New York.Oh, PLEASE! Let's not get carried away.


Oh ya thats right that, New York would never be attacked. Your right. No bombs in the parking garage of the Wolrd Trade Center, No airplanes flown into them, no attacks on American Soil would ever happen. And what shows you lack any type of solid discussion point is that you chose that one line out of the entire post to respond too?? Please you'll have to do better. Its a fact, we have killed more terrorist and and thier ilk in Iraq than died on 9/11 attacking us here. Its a fact we have prevented the following:
1. The West Coast Airliner Plot: In mid-2002 the U.S. disrupted a plot to attack targets on the West Coast of the United States using hijacked airplanes. The plotters included at least one major operational planner involved in planning the events of 9/11.
2. The East Coast Airliner Plot: In mid-2003 the U.S. and a partner disrupted a plot to attack targets on the East Coast of the United States using hijacked commercial airplanes.
3. The Jose Padilla Plot: In May 2002 the U.S. disrupted a plot that involved blowing up apartment buildings in the United States. One of the plotters, Jose Padilla, also discussed the possibility of using a "dirty bomb" in the U.S.

Tell the 3000 plus that died that New York could never be attacked. We have already had 1 failed suicide bomber attempt in the US. Hey I know lets invite them to come here and go to your neighborhood and use IED's and VBIED's. then lets see who changes thier song.

on Jan 10, 2006
Col, as I have said before. You can post a number or statistic from anywhere and you simply apply it to Bush. You do not take that "statistic" and find any other reason behind it except for "blame Bush".

Even the liberals here on JU think you are full of it.
on Jan 10, 2006
This reminds me somebody.

on Jan 10, 2006
All the data from my post 18 come from U S Government data. This data is about the basic economic and fiscal policies of this country. Bush has been successful in getting his policies passed by Congress. Who would you like to hold responsible for the Results? George Washington!
on Jan 10, 2006
I would not want our Military to be fighting Terrorists in New York. However the Iraq War has not reduced that possibility!
on Jan 10, 2006
#27 by Island Dog
Tuesday, January 10, 2006


Where did you get that! That is priceless!
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