This is my personal view and comments on the issues and events that I feel a need to talk about or express my view. You don't have to agree, but lets carry on a adult, discussion and maybe you will see it the right way, mine. ;)
STOP the INSANITY!
Published on February 12, 2007 By ShadowWar In Current Events

OK OK I am tired of hearing about the "illegal", "improper", or otherwise wrongly convicted Border Patrol Agents that were convicted by a jury in a court of law of having violated several laws. I am tired of people that seem to confuse the issue of Border Security and the actions of two Border Patrol Agents. This conviction in no way affects the other Border Patrol Agents.

I have heard several people who are advocating the release or pardon or freeing of these agents say that this conviction has the effect of hindering our Border Patrol Agents who are trying to do their jobs. Bullchips! I am a 26+ year veteran police officer, I have been involved in shooting someone. I teach full time at the police academy and have an extensive background in training of law enforcement officers and the issues that affect them, to include officer survival.

Just because another officer is convicted of wrongful conduct does not affect me one way or the other in the least.  Especially if they were convicted by a jury of this wrong doing. If I conduct myself as I should I have no worries. Last time I checked that’s how our system works. You see I know many don't want to hear this but I have the right to say this since I am one, COPS (read Border Patrol Agents) MAKE MISTAKES AND SOME ARE PROBABLY BREAKING THE LAW OR RULES! The difference is we have to pay for our mistakes at a slightly higher level than most people. As it should be. We are held to a slightly higher standard than others, as it should be. When you give someone the authority to take a human life at a moments notice, which is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. And any violation of that authority should be pursued with the strictest penalties, to the fullest extent of the law. Do you realize cops are the only ones (besides soldiers) that can take another humans life without any type of outside discussion? We don't have to consult anyone, just make a decision that will cost another human their life. That can not, and should not be taken lightly. And when we make a mistake, either on purpose, or accidentally, or through negligence we pay for it.

Here is what I see from the Prosecution Side:

According to the U.S. attorney who successfully prosecuted the agents, the man they were chasing didn't actually have a gun, shooting him in the back violated his civil rights, the agents didn't know for a fact that he was a drug smuggler, and they broke Border Patrol rules about discharging their weapons and preserving a crime scene.

Even more broadly, Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Kanof said, Ramos and Compean had no business chasing someone in the first place.

"It is a violation of Border Patrol regulations to go after someone who is fleeing," she said. "The Border Patrol pursuit policy prohibits the pursuit of someone."

Her arguments, along with testimony from other agents on the scene and that of the smuggler himself, swayed a jury. It was a crushing blow to Compean and Ramos, both of whom had pursued suspects along the border as a regular part of their job.

It also appears to fly in the face of the Border Patrol's own edicts, which include "detouring illegal entries through improved enforcement" and "apprehending and detouring smugglers of humans, drugs and other contraband."

http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_4141562

A Texas jury convicted the pair of assault with serious bodily injury; assault with a deadly weapon; discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence; and a civil rights violation. Compean and Ramos also were convicted of four counts and two counts, respectively, of obstruction of justice for not reporting that their weapons had been fired.

While this may not seem like much to some, these are very serious charges. And if they did not do these things, they have the right to appeal, another part of our system.

When I was involved in a shooting of a drug dealer that had just made a deal for cocaine, and then fired two shots at a fellow officer at les than 2 feet (and missed thank God) myself and the fellow officer shot the suspect multiple time. He survived he gunshot wounds (as I gave him first aid, go figure) and proceeded to sue all of us involved for $15,000,000 each. Now that is slightly more than I make (or for that matter will ever make) and after 7 (yes that’s SEVEN) years of court hearings, depositions and such, the case was dismissed by the Federal Courts. For those 7 years it was a real pain trying to get credit, as you can well imagine, but the system had to go through its motions.

The fact that the bad guy was doing something wrong is not grounds to shoot him, the fact that the Border Patrol Agent thought the suspect had a gun should be a consideration, but the jury evidently did not buy it. That’s what happens when you make a mistake at this level, you pay for it.

I am sorry this happened, no one should have to go through what those guys are, BUT if they did what the have been convicted of the law is clear and it has been carried out in accordance with that law. They have appeals and other avenues they can take. Let’s see what the system says, if it finally decides they are wrongly convicted, then I hope and pray they get all the back pay and their jobs back.

But until then stop trying to short circuit the system. Just because someone is a cop, does not mean they don't make mistakes or lie. We have courts to decide that, and the court decided this case, not who has the most popularity. We know the chances we take, we know the responsibility we have and we accept the scrutiny that that carries.

 


Comments
on Feb 12, 2007
Sorry I do not have the link off the top of my head, but go to Worldnetdaily.com and look up this episode.  While you may not change your mind, I doubt you will be so kind to the DA or harsh on the Cops.
on Feb 12, 2007
"It is a violation of Border Patrol regulations to go after someone who is fleeing," she said. "The Border Patrol pursuit policy prohibits the pursuit of someone."


Well then how the hell do they catch people?...If someone runs away that means they win?

~Zoo
on Feb 12, 2007

OK lets clarify, I am not being harsh on the cops. What I am saying is, the case went through our system, they were convicted by a jury that felt they were guilty of what they were charged with. They have the appeal process to work in. So since thats the way it works, let it work.

As for thier pursuit policy, I will check on it and see what I can get, I ahve a few buds in DHS/BP.

I have seen both sides of this story, just as the jury did and they found them guilty.

Worldnetdaily has nothing new..

on Feb 12, 2007

I did find the official IG Investigation. You can find it here: http://www.dhs.gov/xoig/assets/OIG_foia_RamosCompean.pdf

I would suggest reading that along with all the other reports that are out there. It gives a lot of information that you may not be aware of.

on Feb 12, 2007

Did you see where the DA lied to Congress?  Frankly I dont know if they are guilty of anything.  I do know the DA lied to Congress on the transcripts and the trial.

Are they bad?  Perhaps.  The trial transcripts have already been denied by the DA in the case.  And that makes me wonder about the rest.  I will send myself a note to get you the link.

on Feb 13, 2007

Reply By: Dr. GuyPosted: Monday, February 12, 2007
Did you see where the DA lied to Congress? Frankly I dont know if they are guilty of anything. I do know the DA lied to Congress on the transcripts and the trial.
Are they bad? Perhaps. The trial transcripts have already been denied by the DA in the case. And that makes me wonder about the rest. I will send myself a note to get you the link.

I am not saying that the DA is a good guy or that he may not have done something wrong somewhere, but what did he do to materially affect the trial or evidence submitted? We have a judicial system, not perfect, but better than most. And we need to let the system work through its cycle.

I am one of the first to tell you from experience that it does not always work, but by calling for these guys to be pardoned whoever is doing it hurts these guys. Do the people calling for this pardon know that if they are pardoned they still lose their retirment and can not get their jobs back? In order to get their lives and jobs and benefits back, if somethig was done wrong in the trial, they need the appeals courts to overturn the conviction and then have a retrial and be found innocent in order to get any kind of benefits back.

I am not saying these guys were guilty. I was not there. What I am saying is all this protesting and calling for a pardon is very short sighted and flies in the face of our judicial system. In most (most not all) cases it is self correcting at some level. By calling for this pardon thay are not thinking long term for the Agents involved. If the jury found them guilty, they heard all the evidence, we have not, and that makes them the better judges of the circumstances. Lets see how the appeals work out and then maybe we will know the story better.

 

on Feb 13, 2007
Thanks for explaining the pardon. The sad fact is that they risk their lives while trying to clear their names. Here is the link I promised. I think the defendants and the DA should swap places. WWW Link
on Feb 13, 2007

Thanks for the link Doc. I read it and I have to say its troubling, but from reading the charges they were not convicted of conspiracy. Here is what bothers me about how politics get in the way. I hope its looked into and used in the appeals if they feel it is crucial to the case.

From the article you linked me too: Poe emphasized the "misleading information went to the crux of the government's case that there was some kind of a so-called 'conspiracy' among these two Border Patrol agents to go out that day and shoot some foreign nationals." (this is just not the case. They were not convicted of conspiracy, but other charges)

Poe said that if the Justice Department does not look into the DHS misrepresentations, then "Congress will just have to weigh in on its options." (Was this information used in court and did the jury use it to convict them? There is a lot to look at here)

Poe contended the "whole government case against Ramos and Compean was based on the statements of a drug dealer who was given back-room deals with the federal government." (There were many other witnesses, to inclue other Border Patrol Agents. So this is not true, it over simplifies the situation).

I think maybe a lot of people are knee jerking to this and not thinking it out. (Not meaning you Doc.. The fact that someone lies to Congress does not mean the case they lie about was bad. The case needs to be reviewed by the appeals court and a ruling based on that review done throug the channels. If it is found to be without merit then free them! If it is found to have merit and been correctly charged and tried then we have to rely on our system. What possible benefit or reason can anyone give as to why would the government prosecute these guys without reason? They just out of the blue hear about these two and say "Hey theres two guys we can arrest and put in jail, we'll teach those Border Agents!" This is not about Border Security, its about two Border Agents and thats all. Let the system work. It will all come out in the end, it always does..