This is my personal view and comments on the issues and events that I feel a need to talk about or express my view. You don't have to agree, but lets carry on a adult, discussion and maybe you will see it the right way, mine. ;)
I think not...
Published on June 23, 2004 By ShadowWar In Current Events
Islamic teachings, history suggest it’s not quite so peaceful

Every day, I feel bombarded by someone telling me Islam is not the violent, hate-filled religion it seems to be but, instead, the religion of peace.
I don’t see how anyone logically could say Islam is a religion of peace. The terrorists who attacked this nation on Sept. 11, 2001, were Islamic fundamentalists, terrorists following the teachings of the Quran and doing Allah’s bidding in bringing down the great Satan.

Islamic leaders have pushed forth the notion that every good Muslim must fight and destroy the non-believers.

The Quran makes it very clear Muslims “must” present non-Muslims with only three choices: conversion, submission to second-class status under Islamic rule or death.

The problem is not strictly the directive to convert or kill non-believers, but instead the degree to which it is carried out. Islam is not the religion of peace it claims to be. It instead appears - through the actions of its followers - to be a religion of intolerance and violence toward non-believers.

We only need to go back to recent history to understand Islam’s widely reported “peaceful teachings” are most often “misunderstood” by its most fundamental followers.

In the early 1990s, the United States sent peacekeeping troops to Somalia on a mercy mission to stop starvation in the region. Instead, local Muslims fought the non-believers for their offense of being non-Muslim.

Why do you think that every time we pressured Saddam Hussein, he appealed to his Islamic brothers to come to his aid in the name of Jihad? Because strictly implying that any action against any Muslim is an attack on their religion is a simple, easy way to get support.

Like clockwork, protest in the Muslim world would erupt. Soon on CNN, you would see President Clinton - back when he was president and believed Saddam was bad - or Bush burning in effigy next to a flaming, American flag and 10,000 Muslims dancing and chanting “Death to America” in the name of Allah.

How peaceful.

It would seem the religion of “peace” and “tolerance” would be for co-existence and getting along with your neighbors. Instead, the Palestinians have made it clear they can’t live side-by-side in peace with non-believers. And the only answer for that region is going to be the extermination of Israel - the death of every man, woman and child in Israel is the only road to peace.

In the name of Allah, suicide bombers are martyrs to be rewarded with paradise and virgins. This is not the exception to the rule in Islam. It is the doctrine of extermination of non-Muslims.

When people speak of Islam as a religion of radicalism and intolerance, they are told the religion is misrepresented and misunderstood. The problem is not a public relations issue. It is an indoctrination issue.

Everywhere but in the modernized world, where its teaching are much more moderate, young Muslims are taught in school that all non-Muslims should be killed in the same way we are taught that we need to be compassionate to those different from us.

The solution is not to deny the problem as the Muslims of the world have done, but to accept, educate and change it.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jun 27, 2004
Hello , its me again ( the french )

It is funny these americans that criticize islam, the same ones who never go abroad .

I know well Muslims, French Muslim are good citizens, we need them here. Islam is not a extremist religion , the only extremist is the stupid BUSH and USA which have helped Bin ladin at the past .

Do not believe on the stupid BUSH .

Bye
on Jun 27, 2004

It is funny these americans that criticize islam, the same ones who never go abroad


Actually, I've been abroad, quite extensively, and I criticize Islam.


Have you been to the US? 

on Jun 27, 2004
If the French love Islam, odd that they pass laws that restict the practice of it. The French seem to have disdain for religion in general. They have tried to make the Middle East their personal playground for 200 years, and pumped billions into Iraq right up until we invaded.

I would suggest a few history courses, " environnement ". North Africa is largely a French imperialist problem, as was, I might add, Vietnam, for which the US also gets the blame.

Much is said about Bush, a man that would take it upon himself to overthrow Hussein. What can be said though about France, a nation that knew full well what sort of monster Hussein was and still bulked up his military and filled their purses with his money?

If anyone wants to play the "The US made Iraq's military strong" I would school myself a bit first.

Anyway, this isn't about France, this is about Islam, and obviously our little French friend knows as little about Islam as he knows about Bush or history in general.
on Jun 27, 2004
I know well Muslims, French Muslim are good citizens, we need them here. Islam is not a extremist religion , the only extremist is the stupid BUSH and USA which have helped Bin ladin at the past .

Do not believe on the stupid BUSH .


Do you not realize that you would be speaking GERMAN if not for the USA? Might want to do a google on "D-Day" there, bucko.

You have painted Americans with a broad brush. While you may know good Muslims (heck, I know a few myself), the OP was referring to the Qu'ran (their holy book, the last time I checked). I don't agree with Bush on many issues, but I'd hardly call him "stupid". But, you're entitled to your opinion.
on Jun 27, 2004
Baker, I know you are well respected within the community, but must you always take such a condescending tone? I may be wrong, but lately you seem a bit snappy... I know it's frustrating when people chime in who obviously dont know much, but there are more constructive methods of letting them know as much...

Anywho... back to the argument at hand...

I personally think it's rather funny how Christians claim everyone as brothers under one god... which is fantastic... as long as it is their God...

I think the current attitude a lot of American's are showing at the moment is almost justified with the recent spate of beheadings, but the cardinal sin is being commited day in and day out, and I find it alarming... the terrorist claim this is in the name of Jihad and Islam, but they are just thugs... You people really need to be careful to make that distinction...

It's like the thugs of South Central LA having their little gangster wars in the name of Christianity... only they aren't claiming as much...

Isolate this as a religious problem at your own peril, it only adds complexity to the problem.

BAM!!!
on Jun 27, 2004

I personally think it's rather funny how Christians claim everyone as brothers under one god... which is fantastic... as long as it is their God


Muggaz, mark this day on the calendar...that statement scored you an insightful from me.

on Jun 27, 2004
muggaz: Read the French guy's post. He got what he gave, except he got substance in return. If I were a troll, I would just tell him that he is an ass. Instead, I tell him why he is being an ass...

If I am snippy it is because there is an odd blankness to debate these days. People come in and say "Reagan... blah, blah... AIDS... blah, blah... Bush... blah, blah, Iraq... blah, blah." You can see that they are spouting the same easily refutable propaganda, mostly lies. You take the time to tell them, present facts to back up your argument, and then they say "Yeah, but..." and recite the same thing again, as if you never spoke...

Sorry, but a perfect example is:

"Isolate this as a religious problem at your own peril, it only adds complexity to the problem."


How can you isolate it when beheadings are tolerated and even promoted by Islamic law? These people grow up in nations where people are beheaded and mutilated for offenses that are misdemeanors in Western nations. Are you shocked they turn to beheadings? Are you shocked that people associate it with Islam? How can we villify people's behavior and not the verbatim decrees that they point to to excuse it?

The Crusades, anti-semitism, all of it are *deviations* in Christianity. You can condemn the behavior of Christians throughout history and never touch the basic principles set down by Jesus Christ. Islam allows and promotes such brutality.

I mean no offense you you Muggaz, I made one harsh judgement of you, you cleared it up, and I apologized. Sorry if I am snippy elsewhere. When people are being beheaded, when US soldiers are being killed, and pubescent, ignorant assholes use it to make jabs and smartass remarks, I am gonna be intolerant. That kind of disrespect is not tolerable.


P.S. and by decrees, I don't mean militant clerics, I mean the Qu'ran itself. I got aquainted with it when I dormed with a lot of Islamic students during the first Gulf War. I could write a dozen blogs on that experience alone. Frankly, I looked really hard at the list of 9/11 bombers because it wouldn't have surprised me a bit if I hadn't tutored one of them in English or HIstory.
on Jun 27, 2004
Baker... I agree with you... but surely you cant place the blame on religion...

It is the powers that be behind the religion... The clerics who stand to lose everything if the Koran is updated as we have discussed before... they are the thugs here, not Islam itself...

Now we have redneck Americans saying we should kill all the towel heads, because their religion prophesises murder... Like I have said before, If the fundamentals of Islam are to kill everyone that isn't a muslim, the USA has my full support to eradicate all muslims in the most painful way possible...

The only way we can get out of this current situation is to embrace the global community... on a deeper level, these problems all stem back to religious fundamentals.... which created society as we know it... there are two possible outcomes... the global community embrace each other, all under heaven... no matter which God, and get to the core of these problems... or we can continue on our current path and all kill each other...

Albert Einstein once said, he doesn't know what type of weapons they will use in the third world war, but they will use rocks in the fourth.

BAM!!!
on Jun 28, 2004
Muggaz: As the religion itself stands, I have to place the blame there. Attitudes toward Jews are spelled out. Islamic law, with all the mutilations, beheadings, intolerance, all of it, are spelled out. Granted, Muslims in Western nations are doing their best to modernize and re-interpret the faith. I congratulate them and am grateful for it. To me at this point in history, though, it is akin to a reformist branch of the KKK.

I think the basic tenets, the definition itself, is possibly too much to overcome. It saturates every piece of propaganda, it is the go-to excuse for every violent action, and dammit, the words are there. When they quote scripture, it is literally there.

What do you do? You take a book that promotes this behavior, and say, "Well, sure, but people can re-interpret it to say mean something other than the obvious thing it is saying." Sure, that is possible, but look at Salman Rushdie, look at all the other Muslims that fearlessly write and plead that the religion must be reformed, and look at the judgment of the Middle East on them.

At this point, I have to say that the "protestant" form of Islam practiced in the West is not representative of Islam as a whole, and while I hope that someday it is updated, literalist, fundamentalist Islam is a serious threat to all of us.

You have to understand how hard it is for me to say that. I have had Muslim friends, I have been acquainted with Jordanian royalty in college, I was invited to the Middle East, I have known Saudis, Yemenis, Iranians, Lebanese, Palestinians... I was even offered a PLO ( Fatah kaffiyeh ) scarf. These people considered me to be sensitive to their ideas, respectful, and open. After all that, I have to say that what they believe is patently dangerous. I'm sorry, but that is how I feel.

I think in the next few weeks I will write some stuff on my own experiences. I am not a redneck that hates these people, but I am coming to the conclusion that their religion is the one insurmountable stumbling block to any hope of peace.

Muggaz, see this as my way of "the global community embrace each other, all under heaven...". I'm not blaming the race, I have no problem with what some people call "towel heads", but I have a fundamental ire for what their religion teaches at this point. I am blaming the brainwashing of an entire region, and the religion responsible.
on Jun 28, 2004
Absolute power corrupts absolutely my friend...

Christianaties interpretations were amended over the years, but I would argue that this was for the benefit of the powers that were at that point of time... This is the only reason the interpretation of Islam has not been amended...

The power and influence that has been installed in the clerics and religious figures within Islam society is frightening. I will maintain till the day I die that Islam is not the cause of the current situation in the middle east...

Attitudes to gentiles are spelt out in the Torah as well mate... they can be interpreted in much the same vein...

It's great that you have had theses experiences with Muslims from varying sectors of the middle east... I have also had the same pleasure... I lived in the same street with a couple of Afghani's, went to school with heaps of Egyptians, and so on... Why is my opinion different from yours?

I am interested to know, before globalisation, what was the Middle East's view on the west, or what it knew of the west? I think it was the industrial revolution, the discovery and distribution of Oil from the middle east that showed the Muslims about gold, money, power, wealth... etc... this is when the Middle East became a problem for the rest of the world... Islam corrupted by values that they knew nothing of.... untold riches that would never be imagined... bestowed upon the sheiks by christian cultures...

I look forward to your articles... however, I will maintain that Islam is no stumbling block to world peace... attitudes like yours presenting it as such is though.

BAM!!!
on Jun 28, 2004
I don't see how you can say that a religion whose law mandates the kind of atrocity we see isn't responsible for the atrocity. Granted, the people have the choice to use that knife, but their act is bolstered by the belief that it is the holy thing to do.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

on Jun 28, 2004
Hehehe... I will try to explain...

Do you think those knife wielding barbarians came to the conclusion themselves that it is OK to commit this savage act on the premise of Religion? I dont think they did.

I think they have been brainwashed their whole life, by authorities whose interests are clearly in line with militant Islam teachings...

It been mentioned before - do you ever see clerics or muslim poilitician families conducting Jihad? no.... they dont want to die, they have millions of under privelaged Middle Easterners to conduct these acts and die for them...

These knife wielding barbarians are merely pawns in a great game of chess, and unfortunately they are getting air time... not everyone is a blessed with education as you are Baker... the worlds general public will only see these muslims as barbaric freaks... which indeed they are... but they weren't born barbaric freaks... I simply can't beleive in my heart that any human is capable of commiting such an act in cold blood... they sincerely beleive they are waging a holy war... we have to ask why this is, and how we can contribute to developing Islams belief system...

I may sound like a crazy kook to some... but all the support and encouragement for these terrorist acts comes from western money. Granted, it's indirect, but it still hasn't stopped.

BAM!!!
on Jun 28, 2004
I don't think you sound like a kook at all. It may be necessary to concede a bit to prevent throwing the baby out with the bath water. The baby isn't Islam, though, it is humanity. The religion tends to suspend the practice of what we consider to be "humane" values under certain circumstances.

That, I think, is your point. When humane values override religious tenets, you could be a peaceful Muslim. I don't differ with that at all. You are coming from a culture that values life, and then you build your faith on top of those ingrained values.

When the ingrained culture is Islam, though, how can you make Muslims say, "Sure, I'll believe the Qu'ran, but only so far as it doesn't override these other, more dominant values..." Nothing is allowed to be more dominant. Islam is very forgiving in many ways, but faith in the literal divinity of the work doesn't appear to me to be one of them. You can't even read it with dirty hands. The religion demands that you see it as something more than just a book.

I don't believe a "normal" human being can do things like behead someone with a carving knife either. You can, though, make wrong into right if people have no other source of the definition. What you are working against is the literal word of the Islamic faith as culture, in my opinion. How do you create these cultural tenets for people to judge their religion against?
on Oct 10, 2004
Dear Sir ,
Before you think so , just answer this question : Are all christion people or jews people represent there religions ? , also I ask you to put your self in any muslems position , what will you do if your brothers are killed everyday seince 100 years ago or more ? and you can not do any thing . I call you to read more about the fundamental and principles of Islam
if you want to know any thing about islam just send your question to this e mail (sr_eli@yahoo.com). thanks for you.
on Oct 10, 2004
"also I ask you to put your self in any muslems position , what will you do if your brothers are killed everyday seince 100 years ago or more ?"


They have. Terrorism didn't begin in 2001. The shame of Islam, at least in the Middle East, is its tolerance, and often promotion, of the killing of innocents. If you can point out Christians and Jews advocating suicide bombing, beheadings, etc., feel free, but you will find they get no popular support. Terrorists, on the other hand, get millions of dollars and the adoration of much of the Arab public in the Middle East.

As long as this happens, they will be soiling their religion by excusing themselves with it. I have no obligation to differentiate. If I constantly hear of Christians attacking people, I will be wary of Christians. The same goes for Muslims.
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