This is my personal view and comments on the issues and events that I feel a need to talk about or express my view. You don't have to agree, but lets carry on a adult, discussion and maybe you will see it the right way, mine. ;)
The death of freedom to fly the American Flag..
Published on June 9, 2004 By ShadowWar In Politics
This is the story of Richard Oulton, an American, a veteran, and a victim of the Ameircan Communist..the Leftys.

Richard Oulton put up a flag pole in his yard, and flew the American Flag and a purple heart flag. For those of you armchair libs, thats a medal you get for being wounded in time of war. Mr. Oulton was awared that medal while he was a member of the "Walking Dead Marines", the 1st BN, 9th Marine Regiment in Vietnam. His unit started out with 800 marines and lost 605 during the war. This unit suffered the highest casulty rate of any unit in the war. He has every right to be proud, and fly those flags, he earned it with his own blood.

In Richmond, Va., Richard Oulton's homeowner's association demanded his flagpole come down. But he said no way.

"To take it down now would be a total dishonor and an insult to everyone that has ever stood for the flag. If that flag comes down now, the next place it will fly will be over my coffin," Oulton said.

He's been raising the flag ever since he was a medic in Vietnam and flew the stars and stripes over his bunker. "I'm just trying to express my patriotism, my love for my country," he said.

Oulton is an attorney. When he moved into the Florida community he says he checked to see if there were any restrictions on flying the flag.

"There was no reference to flags or flagpoles anyplace," Oulton said.

So he put up a big flagpole next to the big home he built, on three lots. His neighbors say they don't object.

They say it's nice, it matches the house, and say it's an asset to the community.
(DID you get that, the neighbors had NO PROBLEM with the pole or the Flags, in fact they liked it!!))

Objection to Flagpole

But the homeowner's association board said the flagpole's too big.

"We had no idea someone would erect a flagpole that large when the guidelines were written," said Birdie Knuckols, former member of the association board.

Since the association guidelines did not mention flagpoles — the board instead ruled it was an unapproved structure. Later they adopted rules allowing flagpoles — but only small ones, no larger than 6 feet — and required them to be attached to the house.

"It's not an issue of patriotism. All we are asking Mr. Oulton to do is show his patriotism within the guidelines that everyone else in the community is willing to live by," Knuckols said.

Planned communities can set these rules because they're private, and many homeowners love the rules because they like the way the regulations make their communities look nice and uniform. They say this raises property values.

But sometimes the people on the boards of the homeowners' associations are very controlling. And the law is on their side. So, in 1999 the board took its complaint about Oulton's flagpole to court, and won. While he appealed, he was allowed to keep the flagpole up.

Oulton said, "I don't understand what the problem is. It's a property right that I have to fly this flag. It's a free speech right that I have to fly this flag."

He dedicated the flagpole to the Marine unit he served with in Vietnam, a unit dubbed the walking dead because three-quarters of its members were killed.

"I had a lot of guys die in my arms and once I put that plaque out there and said this flag will always fly because I owe it to my boys, my walking dead Marines … I owe it to my boys," Oulton said.

But it won't fly anymore. He took it down in March. All that remains is a hole in the ground, a broken plaque and mementos left by visiting veterans.

Oulton lost his case in local court, and then higher courts rejected his appeals. The presiding judge told Oulton, "You agreed not to erect a structure without prior approval. That's it. No more, no less. You violated that agreement." After a four-year battle, Oulton has lost his flag, and $150,000 to the association in legal fees.

Is this not a perfect example of the way in which the freaks, and deviants in this country take away our freedoms one at a time? Is this not a crime! Think about it, the neighbors LIKED the pole and flags, but some idiot with to much time on his hands and to little brain decided that he didn't like it, can this truely have been an American who felt that way? Does this not make your blood boil that they would go so far as to force him to remove them?? I can tell you where I would have told them to put the flag pole. Then they would have had to come take it down by force.

Another small part of American Freedom and the right to express your love of this Country died that day.
The like shows you pictures of this case and a little more in-depth info. I mistakingly said the ACLU was involved inthis case, they were not to my knowledge (now I know this) but this is just the type of thing thye would do. But this was just done by local idiots and leftys.. They must have had troubled childhoods and blame the USA for all the welfare checks they are forced to get.
Comments (Page 1)
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on Jun 09, 2004
I read about this case. It really is a sad thing.

You want me to take down my flag? Come and tell me to my face! And, you'd best be prepared to take it. I was wounded in combat serving my country. I had my friends die beside me. I won't take down my flag even if a court ordered it.

If you don't like the American flag I shed my blood for, live someplace else. As far as I'm concerned, screw you.
on Jun 09, 2004

I think I'm as patriotic as the next person. But I tend to agree with the association on this. It's not that his neighbors and association were unpatriotic or didn't respect the flag, it's that when you move into an association you agree to abide by a certain set of rules.

My association doesn't explicitly say you can't build a gigantic flag pole in my front yard. But the spirit of the agreement is pretty clear - don't build structures without prior approval.  If you want to build these kinds of structures, you shouldn't live in a neighborhood association.

I don't like when people try to play the patriotism flag to claim victimhood anymore than I like seeing people play the racism card to play victim.  I would have objected to a huge flag pole and huge flag across the street from my house too. And no one who knows me would ever accuse me of being unpatriotic.

on Jun 09, 2004

Umm, they didn't want him to take down the flag, they wanted him to take down the flagpole.  There are some important questions unasked here.  How tall was the flagpole, is the most important one.  Was it the standard height?  8-12ft?  Was it larger?  Was it big enough to pick up radio transmissions from the Martian orbiter?  There are some cities which have statutes on the size of flagpoles, if this was one of them, the neighborhood has a point, if not, then, as the others have said, screw 'em.


This still isn't a patriotism issue, or even about the flag, it's about the NHA being too much of a pansy to go talk to the guy, instead of taking him to court.


Cheers

on Jun 09, 2004
I don't see why the flagpole would be an issue. Sorry, maybe I have different sensebilities (sp?) than others but I just don't get i.

I don't like when people try to play the patriotism flag to claim victimhood


Just what the hell does THAT mean? I'm sorry Brad but that statement deserves some explaination.
on Jun 09, 2004

If you want to build a huge flag pole, don't live in a subdivision.  Most new subs also don't allow fences, so don't buy a house in a sub if you want a fence.  I live in the country because I like having a fenced in yard for my dogs and a huge nautical flag pole.

He would have been better off selling his house and moving to someplace that doesn't have association rules.

on Jun 09, 2004
The interesting thing about this situation, I believe, is that it doesn't reflect the typical liberal vs. conservative situation. I think it's more along the lines of conservative vs. conservative.

Oulton was an obvious conservative: a patriotic American veteran who wanted to fly the American flag on a big friggin' pole. Nothing liberal about that.

However, the community association whatever board also acted rather conservative. They had a STRICT set of rules governing their community that they ENFORCED. They wanted the man to CONFORM to the community. They were AGAINST something that was DIFFERENT FROM THE NORM. I find more conservative ideals in the association board than liberal ones.

Pretty interesting situation though. A stubborn conservative veteran who wants to fly a flag against a stubborn conservative community board who wants to community to look uniform.
on Jun 09, 2004
This is exactly the reason why I will NEVER buy a home in a community run by a homeowner's association. If I'm spending hundreds of thousands of MY hard earned dollars on the biggest investment of my life, I'll be damned if I'm going to have a self-serving group of people tell me what I can and cannot do to my own home.

And to think that people pay for the right to be a part of a homeowner's association. What a crock of shit. You know what, I'm willing to take the hit on property values in order to maintain my ability to do things that I want to my property.

-- B
on Jun 09, 2004
They had a STRICT set of rules governing their community that they ENFORCED


Ah, but you missed the point. They didn't have a rule against it. That really is the point. They decided to MAKE a rule against it after the fact. A judge decided to back them on this. THAT is the real point.
on Jun 09, 2004
They didn't have a rule against it. That really is the point. They decided to MAKE a rule against it after the fact. A judge decided to back them on this. THAT is the real point.


So basically the governing body of the complex thought the overly tall flagpole did not "jive" with the complex aesthetic so they looked for a way to get rid of it. A normal response for the gated community.

Since they had no rules specifically about flagpoles, they determined it was a structure. Which it was, and that meant it would have to come down. With that rule already agreed to, they then made another rule regarding flagpole to prohibit a reccurence.

IG


on Jun 09, 2004
I'd fly the flag JUST BECAUSE it pissed 'em off!
on Jun 09, 2004
Me too Joe
on Jun 09, 2004

MasonB: What I am saying is that the issue isn't patriotism.

Secondly, people choose to live in a neighbhorhood association specifically so that people won't do nutso things on their houses. I live in a neighborhood association and am damn glad I do. I don't want to have people keeping their camper in their drive way all day.  I don't want people building some big ugly wood shed or whatever in their back without having it approved first. I dont' want somene building some big old above ground pool next to me.  And for that matter, I don't like fences either.   Some of you probably think I'm nuts. Good for you. You don't have to live in an association. But for people like me, that's why they have them. And they're quite popular.

Mason, you're just plain wrong about your understanding of associations. It doesn't work the way you imply. Associations don't let you build structures without prior approval. They don't have to put together some list of things you can't build.

Neighborhood assocations aren't for everyone. This guy should simply have not bought a house in one.

on Jun 09, 2004

The presiding judge told Oulton, "You agreed not to erect a structure without prior approval. That's it. No more, no less. You violated that agreement."


Which part of that statement doesn'tanyone seem to understand?  It's not about what was flying from the pole; it was about the pole.  It was about his erecting said pole without requesting permission and approval from the Housing Association, something that he had a contractural obligation to do.


This isn't about patriotism or the lack thereof; this is about breach of contract. 

on Jun 09, 2004
I think you are way off on your "lefty" comment. I am extremely "left" and i would have absolutely no objection to that flag pole and neither would any of my liberal friends. People in these kind of neighborhoods are really anal about what gets put up and how and where it is put up. I highly doubt its part of any leftist conspiracy.
on Jun 09, 2004

This reminds me of an episode of Frasier where Frasier's nemesis convinced the apartment complex to drape the US flag across the building, much of which would hinder Frasier's view from his balcony.

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